GDG- Susquehanna River

Robert G Pielke rpielke at
Wed Jan 25 10:24:35 CST 2012

I used the Faulkner quote as the epigraph of my novel A New Birth of
Freedom: The Visitor -- wherein there was "still time for it not to happen."
[Altered Dimensions Press -- for anyone interested]

"Northerners" know the quote as well....

Bob Pielke

-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at]
On Behalf Of George Connell
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: GDG- Susquehanna River

Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:

I know what Faulkner said. Down here you can't get out of fifth grade unless
you can recite it from memory.


26ª11'56"N   81ª48'19W"

On Jan 24, 2012, at 10:42 PM, Jack Lawrence wrote:

> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Connell" 
> <georgeconnell at>
> To: "GDG" <gettysburg at>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: GDG- Susquehanna River
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> Jack,
>> First of all, your Faulkner comment is patronizing.
> George, here is what Faulkner said.
> Was Faulkner being patronizing? I was serious as a heart attack when I
said that. I have had six of those lest you think I am being patronizing
about heart attacks.
> And I tempered it when I said I feli about Lincoln the same way.
> You overreact.
> For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants
it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July
afternoon in 1863, the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the
guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already
loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and
his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill
waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it's all in the balance, it
hasn't happened yet, it hasn't even begun yet, it not only hasn't begun yet
but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those
circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armistead and
Wilcox look grave yet it's going to begin, we all know that, we have come
too far with too much at stake and that moment doesn't need even a
fourteen-year-old boy to think This time. Maybe this time with all this much
to lose than all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the
golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable
victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago.
> - William Faulkner, Intruder in the Dust
>> Second, you offer assertions as truths, without a shred of evidence in
> I am not sure what this is all about.
> >
>> Third, you dismiss with exactly one short, unsubstantiated sentence a
long discussion that includes nearly a dozen documented references.
> I think this is the same thing.
>> On the other hand, we know that Lee had given "be prepared" instructions
to cross the Susquehanna to two of his three corps. We don't know what he
was planning for Longstreet's Corps, but a minimum of two-thirds of his army
over the river is more than a raid.
> Suicide is what that would have been. Never going to hapen anyway. Lee was
never going to win that battle. Hell, he was trapped.
> Before you go any further, how was he going to defeat anybody in detail.
> Meade already knew where to fall back to, and if wver tour the Pipe Creek
line, you will see the insanity of sending 2/3 of your army north of a
natural barrier.
> > I speculate here, but if Lee had been able to defeat the AoP corps in
detail as they came up in ones or two and to achieve that victory he always
sought, why wouldn't he want to be east of the Susquehanna? That's where he
would need to be to exploit the victory by threatening Philadelphia and
Baltimore.  What's west of it? Breezewood?
> Not Breezewood. there is only a toll gate and the worlds biggest Bob Evans
> George, I gotta tell you, you can say unsubstantiated all you want, but
you have to be able to show a plausible path forward to get where you
are.But Ok, this is a discussion group. But you are not one I would
> The only patronizing around here is between the brothers.
> BTW: Bob is recovering well. I am ahead 6 to 1.
> THAT is patronizing.
> Regards,
> Jack
> What direction does the Susquehanna run anyway?
> " <gettysburg at
>>> Hello.
>>> You are correct, we have discussed this before. But no issues are
settled on the GDG.
>>> There is a certain innate Faulkner in many Lee admirers that grandiosize
Lee to an unsubstainable level.
>>> Thus, the Lee as doomslayer. (I feel the same way about Lincoln the 
>>> Great Emancipator, even though that is an unrealistic perception and 
>>> I know it.)
>>> There was never any intent, nor was there ever any means, to occupy
Harrisburg. But, as you point out, it was a good idea (and it worked).
>>> Regards,
>>> Jack
>>> BTW: Haupt thought that Lee's goal WAS to wreck the rail lines.
>>> I have cut the thread as the length was getting onerous.
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