GDG- ISusquehanna River

CWMHTours at aol.com CWMHTours at aol.com
Tue Jan 24 20:11:32 CST 2012


Yayyyyy!!!!!
 
Finally Sir-
 
We see finally eye-to-eye.  I can see putting a  raiding/expeditionary 
force into Hrsbg but to invest it would be nuts.   Just suicide.
 
You are so much cooler than me.  I find that hard to  accept.
 
O well.... 
 
A  Loyal Neo-Anti Unionist,
Peter  

 
In a message dated 1/24/2012 9:07:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
georgeconnell at mac.com writes:

Esteemed  GDG Member Contributes:
Thank you, Peter.

I don't think he would  have put a large force in Harrisburg either. Having 
captured it, I expect he  would have quickly reduced the number to that 
sufficient to control the town  and destroy its war-fighting facilities.

One reason is that there were  important objectives outside Harrisburg to 
be destroyed. For that we have a  bit evidence in his instructions to Hill to 
follow in trace of Ewell, but then  to focus on targets east of Harrisburg. 
Another reason is that he would have  had to maneuver quickly to fight the 
various Union corps separately.  

You can be sure, if actually were to have happened, that Lee would  never 
sit still and let Meade come to him at his leisure. Speed, with a  
well-rested and well-fed ANV against an exhausted AoP, would have been  everything.

Regards,


George


On Jan 24, 2012, at  20:42, CWMHTours at aol.com wrote:

> Esteemed GDG Member  Contributes:
> Dammit George!
> 
> Another excellent  contribution.
> 
> I hate that from you.
> 
> You are  much better than me.
> 
> But I still don't think Lee would have  put the whole ANV in  Harrisburg, 
 
> just the minimum  possible.
> 
> As a heretic to your P.O.V would you still not  share a pale  ale with 
me?  
> We'll get John Grim.  He  knows good chili.
> 
> A  Loyal Neo-Anti Unionist,
>  Peter  
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/24/2012 8:35:55  P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> georgeconnell at mac.com  writes:
> 
> Esteemed  GDG Member Contributes:
>  Margaret,
> 
> I don't understand why so many  esteemed  members of this group want to 
> assume that Lee would have sent  as  small a force as possible across the 
> Susquehanna and then  pulled it back as  soon as possible.
> 
> If Lee intended to  move Ewell's Corps and Hill's  Corps across the river 
> (as he  stated) it's a pretty safe bet he wasn't going  to leave 
Longstreet's  
> on the other side of a water barrier. I think it's not   unreasonable to 
> speculate that Lee, the most audacious commander of  the war,  might have 
been 
> willing to fight the AoP east of the  Susquehanna. There are  some 
caveats, 
> however. He would need all  his cavalry with him; detailed  information 
on the 
> locations of  the various Union corps; and the confidence  that the AoP 
corps 
>  were exhausted, strung out by a rushed pursuit, and not in  position to  
> provide meaningful support to one another.
> 
> Risky?  You bet.  But Lee was never afraid of risk. History has a number 
of  
> audacious commanders  burning their boats and telling troops "We  win or 
we  
> die."
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  George
> 26ª11'56"N    81ª48'19W"
> 
> On Jan 24,  2012, at 7:20 PM, Margaret D. Blough  wrote:
> 
>>  Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> Tom-The Second  Corps was  just across the river from Harrisburg and 
> prepared to move when  Lee  called it back after learning that the AOP 
was on the 
> move  and already north  of the Mason-Dixon line. I think Lee was quite  
> serious about Harrisburg. I  don't believe he meant to occupy it  for any 
> significant length of time, just  long enough to score a  PR coup (Andrew 
Curtin of 
> PA was one of the leaders of  the "War  Governors" supporting the 
President) 
> and do damage to the rail hub  in  Harrisburg. 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,  
>> 
>> 
>> Margaret 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom"   <bunco973 at optonline.net> 
>> To: "GDG"   <gettysburg at arthes.com> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012  7:08:00  PM 
>> Subject: Re: GDG- ISusquehanna River  
>> 
>> Esteemed  GDG Member Contributes: 
>>  Sorry, more specifically , re: your below  posts on Harrisburg - the 
same  
>> link - but the article " Our Whole  Force Was Directed  ........... ". 
On 
> Pg. 
>> 103 - "Why Harrisburg"   (scroll down in the PDF to Page 103._ 
>> 
>> Regards, Tom  B.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  -----Original Message-----  
>> From: Tom Barrett 
>>  Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:26 PM  
>> To: 'GDG'  
>> Subject: Re: GDG- ISusquehanna River 
>> 
>>  Esteemed GDG Member Contributes: 
>> 
>> When we  discussed  this in some detail a couple of months ago, I was 
left  
>> with the  impression that most everybody agreed that Lee,  being in 
> possession 
>> of some common sense, and being able  to read maps, was using Harrisburg 
> the  
>> way a  matador uses a red cape. His real intent was to have the AOP  
>  rushing 
>> wildly after him (like a bull) and to defeat it  piecemeal.  
>> 
>> Sending a force into Harrisburg was  a good idea. Preferably  cavalry. 
But 
>> it made no sense for  him to get a slow moving force  trapped on the 
East 
> side  
>> of the Susquehanna until AFTER he'd sent the  AOP home with  its tail 
> between 
>> its legs. (Then he could move on  to  Boston, Buffalo, Syracuse or 
> wherever.) 
>>  
>> Of course, things  never got that far, but I think he would  have 
"sacked" 
>> Harrisburg,  wrecked the railroad, burned the  warehouses, and waited 
for 
> the 
>> inevitable reaction- but  waited on the West side of the river. 
>> 
>> Regards,  
>> 
>> TB 
>> 
>> -----Original   Message----- 
>> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com  
>  [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com] 
>> On Behalf Of George  Connell  
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:10 PM  
>> To: GDG 
>> Subject: Re: GDG- ISusquehanna River  
>> 
>> Esteemed GDG Member  Contributes: 
>>  Peter, 
>> 
>> Some relevant items from my  Gettysburg  notes: 
>> 
>> • During the Antietam Campaign when   General John Walker, just up 
>> from Richmond with his  two-brigade  division, reported to Lee at 
> Frederick,  
>> he says Lee told him that the  Army was going to Harrisburg,  destroy 
the 
>> Pennsylvania railroad  bridge, and then go to  Philadelphia, Baltimore, 
or 
>> Washington.  (B&L, vol. 3).  See also R. E. Lee, Vol II, pp. 360-1 for 
on 
> his 
>>  thoughts on operating east of the Susquehanna during this campaign.  
>> 
>> • Dorsey Pender, June 28, 1863, June 28, 1863: "I  hope we may be in  
>> Harrisburg in three days..." Lee's  Lieutenants, Vol III, pp.76-77.  
>> 
>> • Lee to  Ewell: “If Harrisburg comes within your means,  capture 
>> it.”  O.R., 27, pt.3. p.914 
>> 
>> • ..."orders   were...issued to move upon Harrisburg. O.R., 27, pt. 2, 
>> p..  316.  
>> 
>> • June 28: Ewell ordered Rhodes to cross  the river and  capture 
>> Harrisburg. Rich Kohr, Gettysburg  LBG, 8/6/6 
>> 
>> • Lee’s orders to Hill on June 28 were to  follow in trace of Early,  
>> cross the Susquehanna downstream  from Harrisburg, and seize the  
railroad 
>> between Harrisburg  and Philadelphia. James Robertson,  General A. P. 
> Hill, p.  
>> 204 
>> 
>> • "Then 'Jeb' started  the  entire column for Carlisle, vis Dillsburg. 
>> He chose this   objective because he reasoned that if the SOuthern 
> infantry  
>> had  advanced to the Susquehanna and were not in the  vicinity of York, 
> they  
>> must be around Carlisle or  Harrisburg." Lee's Lieutenants, Vol III,  p. 
> 137. 
>>  
>> • Lee: “To-morrow, gentlemen, we will not move to   Harrisburg as 
>> expected, but will go over to Gettysburg and see  what  General Meade is 
>> after.” Gettysburg Nobody Knows, pp  110-111.  
>> 
>> • Lee was going to Harrisburg. So say  the document and  spontaneous 
>> utterances. He changed his  mind because of a lack of  cavalry to block 
> the 
>>  passes. Tony Nicastro, LGB, in a lecture to the  Gettysburg Licensed  
>> Battlefield Guide class, 6/27/6 
>> 
>> • In  Lee’s perfect world: he would dig in at Cashtown, block the 
>>  passes, wait for Stuart, and head for Harrisburg if possible. Tony 
>  Nicastro,  
>> LGB, in a lecture to the Gettysburg Licensed  Battlefield Guide class,  
> 6/28/6 
>> 
>> Now  that's ten citations from eight respected  sources; I have more but 
 
> it 
>> gets repetitious. 
>> 
>> You   can moan, you can grumble, and you can speculate, but what you 
> cannot  do  
>> is doubt any longer. Lee was going to Harrisburg (and  other points  
east 
> of 
>> the Susquehanna)--and he was  taking a lot of infantry with  him. 
>> 
>>  
>> Regards, 
>> 
>> George 
>> 26ª11'56"N  81ª48'19W" 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>  
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