GDG- ISusquehanna River
CWMHTours at aol.com
CWMHTours at aol.com
Tue Jan 24 15:01:20 CST 2012
George....
I love you Man....
But I DO doubt it......
Think of the consequences for Lee.
Before capturing a big city like Hrsbg he would have an intact artmy. He
takes that army on the wrong side of the river.
Look at the Confederate occupation of Frederick in the CW. Before Ant.
they lost a lot of men getting drunk in the town, not to mention Jackson
falling asleep during the sermon in the Presbytyrian church.
Occupying a city for ANY army is fraught with danger. You don't just go
in and parade around. You risk losing control of yo0ur army.
Lee was in the N only to threaten the N, not to capture a city.
And, Sir, please tell me what benefit Lee would gain fro being on tne
wrong side of the Sus R when his supply lines were in the Cumberlaand?
Politely, I would like to hear an argument for Lee going into Harrisburg. To me
it makes no sense.
So I do doubt it.,
A Loyal Neo-Anti Unionist,
Peter
In a message dated 1/24/2012 3:34:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
georgeconnell at mac.com writes:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Peter,
There is absolutely no doubt that Lee intended to capture Harrisburg. To
do that, he would have to move infantry east of the Susquehanna. How long
they would stay is another question and very much depends on how much time he
had before the AoP would have been close.
Regards,
George
26ª11'56"N 81ª48'19W"
On Jan 24, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Dave Gillespie wrote:
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> The Susquehanna River is extremely low once it gets past Harrisburg,
> where it is also very low. I have seen a good deal of the
> Susquehanna, both in South Central PA (I grew up in Carlisle, PA) and
> in South Central New York, where it is much deeper, yet narrower. It
> is a fascinating river.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Gillespie
> Parsippany, NJ
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 2:28 PM, <CWMHTours at aol.com> wrote:
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> Jeff and Andy bring up some good issues.
>>
>> The Susq R is an amazing river basin and the largest water source of
the
>> Ches Bay. Goes all the way up into southern NY state.
>>
>> Extremely wide. Just north of the state border with MD there is a huge
>> dam, the Conowingo. some 30-40 mi north of that is 3 Mile Island.
>>
>> Someone correct me but if I recall correctly rocks are apparent in low
>> water on the R at Wrightsville.
>>
>> I cannot imagine any sane Conf commander putting any significant
number of
>> infantry east of the river during the GTYSBG campaign. You might as
well
>> wave goodbye as they marched off to Johnson's Island.
>>
>> If I wuz Ewell I'd put cavalry that could move fast east of the river
but
>> not infantry.
>>
>> In magazines like American Heritage I have read stories of loggers
putting
>> log rafts a good mile long down the river from NY. Pretty amazing
stories.
>>
>> The Susq R is an earthquake fault. Interesting on the East Coast.
The
>> Hudson also is an earthquake fault, oddly enough. If I lived in
Manhatten I
>> wouldn't be able to sleep knowing that. And certainly in a high rise.
>>
>> If you go online you can see that the southern half of the C Bay is a
>> crater from a meteor striking it millions of years ago.
>>
>> The Conowingo Dam basin is an environmental issue (No politix here!).
The
>> overflow is full of phosphates which are killing the bay (I need my
>> crabs!). And more frighteningly the dam has pretty much silted up to
water level
>> with silt. The silt is full of heavy metals, which scares experts, and
>> costs me sleep at night worrying about it.
>>
>> Cadmium, lead, mercury, etc. It is pretty scary.
>>
>> That's my story, along with the 57mm's gun in Wrightsville and I am
>> sticking to it.
>>
>>
>> A Loyal Neo-Anti Unionist,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/24/2012 1:50:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> amills at jplcreative.com writes:
>>
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> Jeff:
>>
>> Out of curiosity: is the dam in which you refer, the one just below
City
>> Island across from the city?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com
[mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Jeff Burk
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:42 PM
>> To: GDG
>> Subject: Re: GDG- Inevitable defeat
>>
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> Your point about the river being shallow is true today. However that
is
>> because the river has been dammed upstream. during the war the river
>> flowed free.
>>
>>
>> Namaste
>>
>> Jeff Burk
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "CWMHTours at aol.com" <CWMHTours at aol.com>
>>> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:14 PM
>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Inevitable defeat
>>>
>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>> The river at that point is frequently shallow in summer droughts but
>>> very wide and quite an obstacle. Very rocky.
>>>
>>> A smart and careful commander would not want to put more than an
>>> expeditionary force that could have been sacrificed on the east side
of
>> the river.
>>> Harrisburg was no significant military goal other than being a state
>>> capital and RR center.
>>>
>>> Thre are 2 57mm guns sitting on the west side of the river there.
>>>
>>> A Loyal Neo-Anti Unionist,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/24/2012 2:22:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> mdblough1 at comcast.net writes:
>>>
>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>> Tom-The militia destroyed it in order to keep the Confederates using
it
>> to
>>> cross over the the eastern shore of the Susquehanna. Harrisburg is
on
>> the
>>> east and this would have enabled the Confederates to attack the city
>> from
>>> both sides. While Lee initially ordered the bridge's destruction,
the
>> ANV
>>> generals on the scene saw the advantages to saving it and tried to
save
>> it.
>>> The Susquehanna is not one of the wildest rivers in the world but
>> bridges
>>> were needed to cross it and with that bridge out there wasn't another
>> until
>>> Harrisburg. The hope was to destroy sections so it could be rebuilt
>> later
>>> but, in the days before dynamite, that sort of precision wasn't
easily
>>> obtained. The Columbia-Wrightsville bridge was a wood & stone covered
>> bridge
>>> believed to be the longest such bridge in the world at the time and
the
>> flames
>>> that destroyed the wood, leaving only the granite supports.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Margaret
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tom" <bunco973 at optonline.net>
>>> To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:38:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Inevitable defeat
>>>
>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>>>> And
>>> in fact, if you think about it, the damn thing IS still made of big
>>> granite blocks. Now just how are you going to knock the darn thing
over
>>> without a
>>> whole lot of valuable time and trouble? <<< It was destroyed, by
fire
>>> (not the granite supports of course), by Union militia.
>>> Regards, Tom B.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: CWMHTours at aol.com
>>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:28 PM
>>> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Inevitable defeat
>>>
>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Respectfully Sir,
>>>
>>> I think we disagree, sir.
>>>
>>> Where is it written that Lee disagreed with Jackson about destroying
>>> infrastructure in the North? I think Lee was just about as
aggressive as
>>> Jackson was in bringing the war to your opponent. for example,
Antietam,
>>
>>> Gtysbg,
>>> & Monocacy.
>>>
>>> I am not dispersing you personally. I just see Lee & Jackson as
being a
>>> balanced combination.
>>>
>>> By the time of 2nd Man Lee could see the Hammer and the Anvil.
>>>
>>> The Hammer was Jackson.
>>>
>>> The Anvil was the wonderful James Peter Longstreet, the Old
Warhorse.
>>>
>>> Also, just curious, I don't recall reference to Lee being concerned
>> about
>>> destroying the RR bridge over the Susq. R. being a big concern of
his.
>> And
>>> in fact, if you think about it, the damn thing IS still made of big
>>> granite blocks. Now just how are you going to knock the darn thing
over
>>> without a
>>> whole lot of valuable time and trouble?
>>>
>>> Lee's 3 raids up north where just that. Raids. Move overwhelming
forces
>>> up north and attack piecemeal in overwhelming force.
>>>
>>> The purpose of going north for Lee was to de-stabilizing the North.
>>> Everything else was a subset.
>>>
>>> A Loyal Neo-Anti Unionist,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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