GDG- ISusquehanna River

George Connell georgeconnell at mac.com
Tue Jan 24 14:33:15 CST 2012 

Peter,

There is absolutely no doubt that Lee intended to capture Harrisburg. To do that, he would have to move infantry east of the Susquehanna. How long they would stay is another question and very much depends on how much time he had before the AoP would have been close.

Regards,

George
26ª11'56"N   81ª48'19W"

On Jan 24, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Dave Gillespie wrote:

> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> The Susquehanna River is extremely low once it gets past Harrisburg,
> where it is also very low.  I have seen a good deal of the
> Susquehanna, both in South Central PA (I grew up in Carlisle, PA) and
> in South Central New York, where it is much deeper, yet narrower.  It
> is a fascinating river.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave Gillespie
> Parsippany, NJ
> 
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 2:28 PM,  <CWMHTours at aol.com> wrote:
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> Jeff and Andy bring up some good issues.
>> 
>> The Susq R is an amazing river basin and the largest water  source of the
>> Ches Bay.  Goes all the way up into southern NY  state.
>> 
>> Extremely wide.  Just north of the state border with MD  there is a huge
>> dam, the Conowingo.  some 30-40 mi north of that is 3 Mile  Island.
>> 
>> Someone correct me but if I recall correctly rocks are  apparent in low
>> water on the R at Wrightsville.
>> 
>> I cannot imagine any sane Conf commander putting any  significant number of
>> infantry east of the river during the GTYSBG  campaign.  You might as well
>> wave goodbye as  they marched off to  Johnson's Island.
>> 
>> If I wuz Ewell I'd put cavalry that could move fast east of  the river but
>> not infantry.
>> 
>> In magazines like American Heritage I have read stories of  loggers putting
>> log rafts a good mile long down the river from NY.  Pretty  amazing stories.
>> 
>> The Susq  R is an earthquake fault.  Interesting on  the East Coast.  The
>> Hudson also is an earthquake fault, oddly  enough.  If I lived in Manhatten I
>> wouldn't be able to sleep knowing that.  And certainly in a high rise.
>> 
>> If you go online you can see that the southern half of the C  Bay is a
>> crater from a meteor striking it millions of years ago.
>> 
>> The Conowingo Dam basin is an environmental issue (No politix  here!).  The
>> overflow is full of phosphates which are killing the bay (I  need my
>> crabs!).  And more frighteningly the dam has pretty much silted up  to water level
>> with silt.  The silt is full of heavy metals, which scares  experts, and
>> costs me sleep at night worrying about it.
>> 
>> Cadmium, lead, mercury, etc. It is pretty  scary.
>> 
>> That's my story, along with the 57mm's gun in Wrightsville and  I am
>> sticking to it.
>> 
>> 
>> A  Loyal Neo-Anti Unionist,
>> Peter
>> 
>> 
>> In a message dated 1/24/2012 1:50:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> amills at jplcreative.com writes:
>> 
>> Esteemed  GDG Member Contributes:
>> Jeff:
>> 
>> Out of curiosity:  is the dam in  which you refer, the one just below City
>> Island across from the city?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
>> On Behalf  Of Jeff Burk
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:42 PM
>> To: GDG
>> Subject:  Re: GDG- Inevitable defeat
>> 
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> Your  point about the river being shallow is true today.  However that is
>> because the river has been dammed upstream.  during the  war the  river
>> flowed free.
>> 
>> 
>> Namaste
>> 
>> Jeff  Burk
>> 
>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From:  "CWMHTours at aol.com" <CWMHTours at aol.com>
>>> To:  gettysburg at arthes.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:14  PM
>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Inevitable defeat
>>> 
>>> Esteemed GDG  Member Contributes:
>>> The river at that point is frequently shallow in  summer  droughts but
>>> very wide and quite an obstacle. Very  rocky.
>>> 
>>> A smart and careful commander would not want to put more  than  an
>>> expeditionary force that could have been sacrificed on  the east side of
>> the  river.
>>> Harrisburg was no significant  military goal other than being a  state
>>> capital and RR  center.
>>> 
>>> Thre are 2 57mm guns sitting on the west side of the  river  there.
>>> 
>>> A  Loyal Neo-Anti  Unionist,
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 1/24/2012  2:22:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> mdblough1 at comcast.net  writes:
>>> 
>>> Esteemed  GDG Member Contributes:
>>> Tom-The  militia destroyed it in order to keep the  Confederates using it
>> to
>>> cross over the the eastern shore of the Susquehanna.  Harrisburg  is on
>> the
>>> east and this would have enabled the Confederates to   attack the city
>> from
>>> both sides. While Lee initially ordered the  bridge's  destruction, the
>> ANV
>>> generals on the scene saw the  advantages to saving it and  tried to save
>> it.
>>> The Susquehanna is  not one of the wildest rivers in the  world but
>> bridges
>>> were  needed to cross it and with that bridge out there  wasn't another
>> until
>>> Harrisburg. The hope was to destroy sections so it could  be  rebuilt
>> later
>>> but, in the days before dynamite, that sort of  precision  wasn't easily
>>> obtained. The Columbia-Wrightsville  bridge was a wood &  stone covered
>> bridge
>>> believed to be the  longest such bridge in the world at  the time and the
>> flames
>>> that  destroyed the wood, leaving only the granite  supports.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Margaret
>>> 
>>> ----- Original  Message -----
>>> From: "Tom"  <bunco973 at optonline.net>
>>> To: "GDG"   <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:38:11  PM
>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Inevitable defeat
>>> 
>>> Esteemed  GDG Member  Contributes:
>>>>>> And
>>> in fact, if you  think about it, the damn  thing IS still made of big
>>> granite  blocks. Now just how are you going to  knock the darn thing over
>>> without a
>>> whole lot of valuable time and  trouble?  <<< It was destroyed, by fire
>>> (not the granite supports   of course), by Union militia.
>>> Regards, Tom B.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: CWMHTours at aol.com
>>> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012  9:28 PM
>>> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
>>> Subject: Re: GDG-  Inevitable defeat
>>> 
>>> Esteemed GDG Member  Contributes:
>>> Dave,
>>> 
>>> Respectfully Sir,
>>> 
>>> I think we  disagree,  sir.
>>> 
>>> Where is it written that Lee disagreed  with Jackson about  destroying
>>> infrastructure in the North? I  think Lee was just about as  aggressive as
>>> Jackson was in  bringing the war to your opponent. for  example, Antietam,
>> 
>>> Gtysbg,
>>> & Monocacy.
>>> 
>>> I am not  dispersing  you personally. I just see Lee & Jackson as being a
>>> balanced  combination.
>>> 
>>> By the time of 2nd Man Lee  could see the Hammer and the  Anvil.
>>> 
>>> The Hammer was  Jackson.
>>> 
>>> The Anvil was the wonderful  James Peter  Longstreet, the Old Warhorse.
>>> 
>>> Also, just curious, I  don't  recall reference to Lee being concerned
>> about
>>> destroying  the RR bridge  over the Susq. R. being a big concern of his.
>> And
>>> in fact, if you think  about it, the damn thing IS still made of  big
>>> granite blocks. Now just how  are you going to knock the darn  thing over
>>> without a
>>> whole lot of  valuable time and  trouble?
>>> 
>>> Lee's 3 raids up north where just that.  Raids.  Move overwhelming forces
>>> up north and attack piecemeal in   overwhelming force.
>>> 
>>> The purpose of going north for Lee was  to  de-stabilizing the North.
>>> Everything else was a subset.
>>> 
>>> A Loyal  Neo-Anti Unionist,
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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