GDG- NPS, Slavery and Economies

Andy Mills amills at jplcreative.com
Thu Jan 5 14:04:17 CST 2012


But the basics of slavery was money.  Money was the underlying factor that kept slavery alive.  

Had slavery resorted in losing money and the decay of the plantations, slavery would have been thrown out and replaced with something profitable.  

Money kept slavery alive and until slavery wasn't profitable or outlawed, it would continue.  

Without the invention of the cotton gin, slavery would have most likely faded out as it wouldn't have been profitable and there would have been no need to protect a system that costs you money. 

Thanks,

-----Original Message-----
From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com] On Behalf Of Jack Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 2:53 PM
To: GDG
Subject: Re: GDG- NPS, Slavery and Economies

Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Jim,

All of the money reasons fold back into slavery.

If you want to claim that the civil war was not about freeing the slaves at the beginning, I will be the first to support you.

If want to say that the Civil War was not about freeing the slaves at the end, I will say Fortress Monroe.

Regards,

Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ferguson" <jaferg at comcast.net>
To: "'GDG'" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: GDG- NPS, Slavery and Economies


> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> I wish you had gone further in your discussion; money was the root cause 
> of
> the Civil War in my opinion. And by root, I mean the one and only one 
> thing
> that if removed from the slavery equation would stop the event from
> happening. The slave trade had become such a major portion of the South's
> GDP that none of the major players in the region were going to accept the
> elimination of it in the westward expansion.
>
> There are many work's on this subject, of course, but I like Bancroft's
> "Slave Trading in the Old South" for an semi-technical unvarnished
> explanation.
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
> On Behalf Of joadx1 at netscape.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 12:59 PM
> To: gettysburg at arthes.com
> Subject: Re: GDG- NPS, Slavery and Economies
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> This is not a simplistic view; in fact, a number of modern analyses of the
> Civil War focus precisely on the economic aspects of the conflict.  One 
> that
> I have read indicates that one of the reasons why non-slave-owning
> southerners fought to protect slavery was because so much of the southern
> economy was founded upon it that everyone would suffer economically if it
> disappeared.
>
> And while it would take us too far away from the parameters of this
> discussion board, I would argue (and do argue in my own professional work)
> that the peculiar institution of money has a particularly powerful role in
> our history, past and present, that is often misunderstood or ignored. 
> But
> I will go no further on that.
>
> But I will add that the matter of slavery and the Civil War is
> overdetermined--that is, there is more than one cause at work here. 
> Beyond
> the very real economic dimensions of the matter are the racial ones (I do
> not want to dwell on this, but racial hatred and feelings racial 
> superiority
> are also involved); the social class ones (the plantation aristocracy was
> able to paper over the class inequalities in the south by telling southern
> yeomen that without slavery they would be part of a menial class, but with
> it they were part of a ruling caste); and simple fear: the southerners 
> were
> very well aware that they had, in many regions, established slave
> populations that were much larger than the white populations, and they 
> were
> terrified of a slave rebellion on the order of the successful rebellion in
> Haiti.
>
> There are yet other parts to this ugly puzzle, but your own suggestion is 
> a
> very important part of it all.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Mills <amills at jplcreative.com>
> To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 5, 2012 9:44 am
> Subject: GDG- NPS, Slavery and Economies
>
>
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> My apologies as I am not the best at getting ideas and thoughts out of my
> head
> and rationalizing them so others can understand.
>
> Having made my disclaimer, I am curious as to why the war wasn't all about
> money?
>
> Secession caused the war and slavery caused secession, I think based on
> emails I
> have read over the last couple days, everyone agrees with this statement.
>
> But what caused slavery?  The immediate cause was the need for cheap labor
> centuries before the civil war, so the underlying cause of slavery was
> money,
> ergo money caused slavery and slavery caused secession so the root cause 
> was
>
> money?
>
> I understand that by 1860, there was also a racial element to America's
> slavery
> and part of the reason for maintaining the system was this racial element
> but I
> don't think this was the major force in maintaining the "peculiar
> institution",
> as the major force was simply put:  money.
>
> So why wouldn't the root cause then be economics, that without allowing
> slavery
> into the territories, slavery would slowly die and as a result, so would 
> the
> way
> of life for the slave holding aristocrats of the South and their desire to
> maintain slavery was a desire to maintain their statuses, income, etc.
>
> One example would be Hampton Plantation outside Baltimore.  It was one of
> the
> largest and richest prior to the Civil War but slowly fell into a period 
> of
> decline once slavery was banished from the country until the NPS saved the
> mansion future generations (yes, I know other organizations originally 
> saved
> it
> in 1948, but didn't want to go into all the history of it).  We can look 
> at
> many
> of the James River plantations that had to open their doors to the public 
> to
>
> preserve and protect their properties because they were no longer
> sustainable
> once slavery was abolished.
>
> I agree that the original south seceded to protect slavery, but underneath
> that,
> slavery was there to support their income / economies, so if you want to 
> say
>
> slavery led to secession which lead to the war, why can't you further 
> define
> it
> that money led to slavery which lead to secession which led to war and as
> such,
> the root cause is the all powerful dollar?
>
> I understand this is a simplistic view and possibly an incorrect view of 
> the
>
> situation, but to me, secession caused the war and a desire to protect
> slavery
> led to secession (I understand that you can't separate slavery from 1860
> South),
> but the root cause of slavery was money.  American slavery / chattel 
> slavery
>
> wasn't like the Native Americans that took slaves from rival tribes to 
> help
> replenish their population, or Rome that took slaves from captured armies.
> Slaves in those societies were not the basis of the economies as it was in
> the
> Antebellum South.
>
> I hope this makes sense, but wanted to get some viewpoints to see if this 
> is
> a
> valid opinion or is full of holes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com [mailto:gettysburg-bounces at arthes.com]
> On
> Behalf Of John Lawrence
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:48 PM
> To: GDG
> Subject: Re: GDG- NPs & Slavery
>
>>--------------------------------
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am not arguing  whether not Lincoln could have  have chosen another
>>method to react to secession.  I'm not arguing Lincoln did not go to
>>war to preserve the union.   I am simply stating the  historical fact
>>that secession was caused by slavery and war was the result.
>>
>>It is impossible to have any discussion of the causes of the war or the
>>cause secession without the inclusion of slavery.
>>
>>The indisputable point is  slavery was the cause of secession which was
>>the cause of the war.
>>
>>The other what-ifs do not apply to that.
>>
>>
>>Take Care
>>
>>Dennis
>
>
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