GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years
CWMHTours at aol.com
CWMHTours at aol.com
Tue Jan 3 11:10:46 CST 2012
Yes they also represent strong unified government or military forces, and
nobility.
Your Most Obedient Servant,
Peter
In a message dated 1/3/2012 7:47:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pipecreek1430 at yahoo.com writes:
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Jack- That is not what I learned about the faces. They are a symbol of
strength. That is why they are on the
chair that Lincoln sits in on the Lincoln Memorial in DC. They are also on
the Lincoln speech memorial in the
Soldiers National Cemetery in Gettysburg. They were also on the Mercury
Dime.
Nancy Householder
________________________________
From: Jack Lawrence <jlawrence at kc.rr.com>
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years
Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
Well,
That is a lot of county seats. In Missouri, the statues trend north north
of the Missouri and southern south of the river.
I brought up the Armeians actually.
Never ask a turkish Guide in an Indiana Jones hat about the Armenian
genocide.
I thought to tour was over, but it was a private tour and my wife and I
were the only tips for the day. I think his comment about no Armenian
monuments was a little dig.
I did not say lost cause in a derogatory manner. Both sides grew their own
versions of the war.
I should have added though that there is a subliminal message on the
stairs on the Emancipator monument in DC.
Their are fasces carved on each side. Fasces are a bundle of rods with an
ax in the middle, the Roman symbol of the power of the state to punish and
the ultimately, to take life away. They are also carved on either side of
the Lincoln memorial in the Cemetery in gettysburg.
Must have been Sickles idea.
If you want symbolism in monuments, thhe Washington Monument on South
Mountain in Maryland was built in the shape of a Whiskey jug.
The next mountain over is Camp David.
Regards,
Jack
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Connell" <georgeconnell at me.com>
To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years
> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> Thank you Jack. I enjoyed your response--except for unfortunate 'lost
cause' slip. Didn't know Sulla also took on the Armenians.
>
> One of my future projects will be to go to every county seat in the
South and photograph the Confederate soldier. I'd like to find someone to do
the Northern ones at the same time. It would cool to put them all on a single
website.
>
> Regards,
>
> George
>
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Jack Lawrence <jlawrence at kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>> There should have been a lot more Confederate period monuments.
>>
>> There are several reasons why there are not.
>>
>> First, the northern veterans were closer to the field than the southern
veterans, which made it much more accessible.
>> Second, the south was a depressed are after the war while the north
boomed. The northern veterans prospered and were able to fund many more
monuments.
>>
>> Third, The Union Veterans controlled the parks and set the rules. The
rules were that your monument could be placed at its farthest point of
advance. The Union veterans had few problems with that though, of course, some
monuments like the
>> 1st Minnesota located themselves farther to the far to be on the
electric RR line than there actual position.
>> The Confederate veterans made many claims as to their actual positions,
many on the far side of the Union positions. The Union was not about to
allow the south to claim positions that inferred that that they had overrun
their positions.
>>
>> Refused the locations of their choice, the southern units eschewed any
monuments.
>>
>> This last reason is usually the reason often given, but I have noticed
that at Shiloh, Vicksburg, Chattanooga and Stones River, Perryville et
all, their are far more Union monuments than Confederate monuments.
>>
>> I think the main reason was that there were that the south lost the war
and the monuments are inferred to be political statements made by a
conqueror (nor was the south alone. When Ephesus declared its independence from
Rome, Sulla's grandsons sacked the city when they took it back. On the road
in the upper city, there is a large bas relief of the two Sulla's on the
road into town; a monument to Rome and the conqueror's.Ii asked our guide if
there were any Ephesians monuments he laughed ((there are no Armenian
monuments either))).
>>
>> So IMHO opinion, there are few period southern war monuments outside of
county squares because the south had little interest in decorating
northern victory parks.
>>
>> In the late 19th early 20th century that changed. The next generation
decided that the memory of those who fought for their various states was
worth supporting and the finest, most wistful, dramatic funerary statuary in
the country was erected along West Confederate Avenue. But these were not
erected by those who fought. They were built by lost causers to memorialize
the southern cause at it had evolved in the intervening generation.
>>
>> (In fairness, they were not alone. The memorial at the Lincoln Monument
was erected by those whom had served under Lincoln the war leader, the
Commander in Chief. It is full of the desperate, violent fury that those
determined to save the union felt. It is, again IMHO, more violent and
determined than the Grant Monument at the base of the Capitol.
>>
>> 70 miles away in DC, those who had been raised on Lincoln the
Emancipator built the Lincoln monument, in which the war is dedicated to that
emancipation.
>>
>> Each side after the war evolved it's own myth of what that war was all
about. (of course, their progeny all stormed the beaches together at
Normandy and Iwo Jima.)
>>
>> That concept evolves today. At Vicksburg, there is a Kansas Monument,
erected during the 1960's centennial period. It is dedicated to Kansas
soldiers who served there (as far as I can tell their contribution to the war
was to try and dig Grant's canal.)
>>
>> The Maryland monument is in the parking lot of the old VC, because that
particular park super decided that all future monuments were to go in that
parking lot).
>>
>> And now we have a regimental statue erected solely because some group
of reenactors persuaded Trent Lott to use his pull and let them erect a
monument. Now who does that honor? The 11th Miss or 11th miss renenactors?
>>
>> Monuments are proposed by some all the time at Gettysburg; one park
historian once said (I think sarcastically) that they should just asphalt the
field over and paint all their names on them.
>>
>> So, I agree that it would be nice if there were more southern
monuments. But the few they have are the best of the lot (except I have never, ever
figured out that soldiers and sailors thing).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Connell"
<georgeconnell at me.com>
>> To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 10:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years
>>
>>
>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>> Should be a lot more Rebel monuments on the battlefield. To paraphrase
Pickett, I think the Confederates had something to do with it.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2012, at 11:25 AM, Jack Lawrence <jlawrence at kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>> Trent Lott's 11 Mississippi.
>>>>
>>>> Regads,
>>>>
>>>> Jack
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Skillman"
<pskillman at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>>> Jack,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm unfamiliar. To which "Mississippi thing" are you referring?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Pete S.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Jack Lawrence wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>>>> I lked the view from the National tower. I did not like the
waypoliticians allegedl manipulated the NPS and had their own guy installed as
Superintendant so that they could get the tower put in.
>>>>>> Nor do I like the way that they decitfully manipulated the deal so
that the promised NPDS share of tower was limited to the part that lost
money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what I really find repugnant is the way they payed loud music
during funerals at the National Cemetary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Politicians aways have their way with the park, look at the
Mississippi thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jack
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Skillman"
<pskillman at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "GDG" <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:52 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>>>>> There was also an observation tower on Big Round Top - the
foundations for it are still there, if I recall correctly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not to mention the lovely "National Tower"! Everyone LOVED that
one!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Pete
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Nancy Householder wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>>>>>> Here is a short list of some of the changes made to the
battlefield thru the years:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At one time there were 5 observation towers. Beside the current
ones on Oak Ridge, Culps Hill, and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> West Confederate Ave, there was also one on East Cemetery Hill,
and on Cemetery Ridge, near where
>>>>>>>> the Cyclorama building is still today.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There was a trolley that ran thru the fields and out to LRT.
>>>>>>>> Out at LRT there was a sort of amusement park with a carosel, and
picnic pavilion and refreashment stand.
>>>>>>>> There was a railroad that ran through the park, too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fence around the Soldier's National Cemetery, that came from
Layfayette Park, in DC, across from the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> White House, was first put up in Gettysburg on East Cemetery
Hill.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the field of PPT charge, besides Camp Colt, was a Civilian
Conservation Corps camp in the 1930's and
>>>>>>>> then was turned into a POW camp for German POW's during WWII.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There was a Stuckey's Pecan Shoppe and Souvenir Stand, and gas
station at the intersection of the Emittsburg Rd
>>>>>>>> and the Millerstown Rd.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How about the Peace Light Inn and tourist court out on the field
in front of the Peace Light Memorial?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've also seen pictures of a Refreashment Stand and Souvenir
shoppe on Oak Ridge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember a place called Fantasyland in the 1960's? I'm
not sure where it was located, but I do remember going there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as a child.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nancy Householder
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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