GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years

CWMHTours at aol.com CWMHTours at aol.com
Tue Jan 3 11:10:46 CST 2012


Yes they also represent strong unified government or military  forces, and 
nobility.
 
Your  Most Obedient Servant,
Peter  

 
In a message dated 1/3/2012 7:47:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
pipecreek1430 at yahoo.com writes:

Esteemed  GDG Member Contributes:
Jack- That is not what I learned about the faces.  They are a symbol of 
strength. That is why they are on the 

chair that  Lincoln sits in on the Lincoln Memorial in DC. They are also on 
the Lincoln  speech memorial in the
Soldiers National Cemetery in Gettysburg. They were  also on the Mercury 
Dime.

Nancy  Householder



________________________________
From: Jack  Lawrence <jlawrence at kc.rr.com>
To: GDG <gettysburg at arthes.com>  
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2012 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in  Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years

Esteemed GDG Member  Contributes:
Well,

That is a lot of county seats. In Missouri, the  statues trend north north 
of the Missouri and southern south of the  river.

I brought up the Armeians actually.
Never ask a turkish Guide  in an Indiana Jones hat about the Armenian 
genocide.
I thought to tour was  over, but it was a private tour and my wife and I 
were the only tips for the  day. I think his comment about no Armenian 
monuments was a little  dig.

I did not say lost cause in a derogatory manner. Both sides grew  their own 
versions of the war.

I should have added though that there is  a subliminal message on the 
stairs on the Emancipator monument in  DC.

Their are fasces carved on each side. Fasces are a bundle of rods  with an 
ax in the middle, the Roman symbol of the power of the state to punish  and 
the ultimately, to take life away. They are also carved on either side of  
the Lincoln memorial in the Cemetery in gettysburg.

Must have been  Sickles idea.

If you want symbolism in monuments, thhe Washington  Monument on South 
Mountain in Maryland was built in the shape of a Whiskey  jug.

The next mountain over is Camp  David.

Regards,

Jack
----- Original Message ----- From:  "George Connell" <georgeconnell at me.com>
To: "GDG"  <gettysburg at arthes.com>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 12:16  PM
Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the  years


> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
> Thank you Jack.  I enjoyed your response--except for unfortunate 'lost 
cause' slip. Didn't know  Sulla also took on the Armenians.
> 
> One of my future projects  will be to go to every county seat in the 
South and photograph the Confederate  soldier. I'd like to find someone to do 
the Northern ones at the same time. It  would cool to put them all on a single 
website.
> 
>  Regards,
> 
> George
> 
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:36 PM,  Jack Lawrence <jlawrence at kc.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Esteemed  GDG Member Contributes:
>> There should have been a lot more  Confederate period monuments.
>> 
>> There are several  reasons why there are not.
>> 
>> First, the northern  veterans were closer to the field than the southern 
veterans, which made it  much more accessible.
>> Second, the south was a depressed are after  the war while the north 
boomed. The northern veterans prospered and were able  to fund many more 
monuments.
>> 
>> Third, The Union  Veterans controlled the parks and set the rules. The 
rules were that your  monument could be placed at its farthest point of 
advance. The Union veterans  had few problems with that though, of course, some 
monuments like  the
>> 1st Minnesota located themselves farther to the far to be on  the 
electric RR line than there actual position.
>> The Confederate  veterans made many claims as to their actual positions, 
many on the far side  of the Union positions. The Union was not about to 
allow the south to claim  positions that inferred that that they had overrun 
their  positions.
>> 
>> Refused the locations of their choice, the  southern units eschewed any 
monuments.
>> 
>> This last  reason is usually the reason often given, but I have noticed 
that at Shiloh,  Vicksburg, Chattanooga and  Stones River, Perryville et 
all, their are  far more Union monuments than Confederate monuments.
>> 
>>  I think the main reason was that there were that the south lost the war 
and  the monuments are inferred to be political statements made by a 
conqueror (nor  was the south alone. When Ephesus declared its independence from 
Rome, Sulla's  grandsons sacked the city when they took it back. On the road 
in the upper  city, there is a large bas relief of the two Sulla's on the 
road into town; a  monument to Rome and the conqueror's.Ii asked our guide if 
there were any  Ephesians monuments he laughed ((there are no Armenian 
monuments  either))).
>> 
>> So IMHO opinion, there are few period  southern war monuments outside of 
county squares because the south had little  interest in decorating 
northern victory parks.
>> 
>> In the  late 19th early 20th century that changed. The next generation 
decided that  the memory of those who fought for their various states was 
worth supporting  and the finest, most wistful, dramatic funerary statuary in 
the country was  erected along West Confederate Avenue. But these were not 
erected by those who  fought. They were built by lost causers to memorialize 
the southern cause at  it had evolved in the intervening generation.
>> 
>> (In  fairness, they were not alone. The memorial at the Lincoln Monument 
was  erected by those whom had served under Lincoln the war leader, the 
Commander  in Chief. It is full of the desperate, violent fury that those 
determined to  save the union felt. It is, again IMHO, more violent and 
determined than the  Grant Monument at the base of the Capitol.
>> 
>> 70 miles  away in DC, those who had been raised on Lincoln the 
Emancipator built the  Lincoln monument, in which the war is dedicated to that  
emancipation.
>> 
>> Each side after the war evolved it's  own myth of what that war was all 
about. (of course, their progeny all stormed  the beaches together at 
Normandy and Iwo Jima.)
>> 
>> That  concept evolves today. At Vicksburg, there is a Kansas Monument, 
erected  during the 1960's centennial period. It is dedicated to Kansas 
soldiers who  served there (as far as I can tell their contribution to the war 
was to try  and dig Grant's canal.)
>> 
>> The Maryland monument is in  the parking lot of the old VC, because that 
particular park super decided that  all future monuments were to go in that 
parking lot).
>> 
>>  And now we have a regimental statue erected solely because some group 
of  reenactors persuaded Trent Lott to use his pull and let them erect a 
monument.  Now who does that honor? The 11th Miss or 11th miss renenactors?
>>  
>> Monuments are proposed by some all the time at Gettysburg; one  park 
historian once said  (I think sarcastically) that they should just  asphalt the 
field over and paint all their names on them.
>>  
>> So, I agree that it would be nice if there were more southern  
monuments. But the few they have are the best of the lot (except I have never,  ever 
figured out that soldiers and sailors thing).
>> 
>>  Regards,
>> 
>> Jack
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Connell"  
<georgeconnell at me.com>
>> To: "GDG"  <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 10:38  AM
>> Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the  years
>> 
>> 
>>> Esteemed GDG Member  Contributes:
>>> Should be a lot more Rebel monuments on the  battlefield. To paraphrase 
Pickett, I think the Confederates had something to  do with it.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>>  
>>> George
>>> 
>>> On Jan 2, 2012, at  11:25 AM, Jack Lawrence <jlawrence at kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>>  Trent Lott's 11 Mississippi.
>>>> 
>>>>  Regads,
>>>> 
>>>> Jack
>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Skillman"  
<pskillman at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "GDG"  <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 02,  2012 9:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Changes in Gettyburg  Battlefield thru the years
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>> Esteemed GDG Member  Contributes:
>>>>> Jack,
>>>>>  
>>>>> I'm unfamiliar.  To which "Mississippi thing"  are you referring?
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Pete  S.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 2, 2012, at 10:38  AM, Jack Lawrence wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Esteemed GDG Member Contributes:
>>>>>> I lked the view  from the National tower. I did not like the 
waypoliticians allegedl  manipulated the NPS and had their own guy installed as 
Superintendant so that  they could get the tower put in.
>>>>>> Nor do I like the  way that they decitfully manipulated the deal so 
that the promised NPDS share  of tower was limited to the part that lost 
money.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> But what I really find repugnant is the way they  payed loud music 
during funerals at the National  Cemetary.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Politicians  aways have their way with the park, look at the 
Mississippi  thing.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Jack
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter  Skillman" 
<pskillman at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "GDG"  <gettysburg at arthes.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday,  January 02, 2012 7:52 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: GDG- Changes  in Gettyburg Battlefield thru the years
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Esteemed GDG  Member Contributes:
>>>>>>> There was also an  observation tower on Big Round Top - the 
foundations for it are still there,  if I recall correctly.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Not to mention the lovely "National  Tower"!  Everyone LOVED that 
one!
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> - Pete
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Nancy  Householder wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Esteemed GDG Member  Contributes:
>>>>>>>> Here is a short list of some  of the changes made to the 
battlefield thru the  years:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> At one time there were 5 observation  towers.  Beside the current 
ones on Oak Ridge, Culps Hill,  and
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  West Confederate Ave, there was also one on East Cemetery Hill, 
and on  Cemetery Ridge, near where
>>>>>>>> the Cyclorama  building is still today.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  There was a trolley that ran thru the fields and out to  LRT.
>>>>>>>> Out at LRT there was a sort of  amusement park with a carosel, and 
picnic pavilion and refreashment  stand.
>>>>>>>> There was a railroad that ran  through the park, too.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> The fence around the Soldier's National  Cemetery, that came from 
Layfayette Park, in DC, across from  the
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  White House, was first put up in Gettysburg on East Cemetery  
Hill.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  On the field of PPT charge, besides Camp Colt, was a Civilian 
Conservation  Corps camp in the 1930's and
>>>>>>>> then was  turned into a POW camp for German POW's during  WWII.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  There was a Stuckey's Pecan Shoppe and Souvenir Stand, and gas 
station at the  intersection of the Emittsburg Rd
>>>>>>>> and the  Millerstown Rd.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> How about the Peace Light Inn and tourist  court out on the field 
in front of the Peace Light  Memorial?
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> I've also seen pictures of a Refreashment  Stand and Souvenir 
shoppe on Oak Ridge.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember a place called  Fantasyland in the 1960's?  I'm 
not sure where it was located, but I do  remember going there
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> as a  child.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> Nancy  Householder
>>>>>>>>  
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>>>>>> 
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